Agenda and minutes

Venue: Y Siambr - Y Senedd/ Zoom

Contact: Aled Elwyn Jones 

Note: 292 

Media

Senedd.TV: View the webcast

Transcript: Transcript for 30/09/2020 - Plenary

Items
Note No. Item

This meeting was held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference.

(45 mins)

1.

Questions to the Minister for Education

Supporting documents:

Minutes:

The item started at 13.30

The first 8 questions were asked. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(45 mins)

2.

Questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services

Minutes:

The item started at 14.20

The first 8 questions were asked. Question 5 was answered by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services. The Presiding Officer invited party spokespeople to ask questions to the Minister after question 2.

 

(20 mins)

3.

Topical Questions

No Topical Questions were accepted.

Minutes:

No topical questions were accepted.

 

(5 mins)

4.

90 Second Statements

Minutes:

The item started at 15.27

Mike Hedges made a statement on Breast Cancer – Wear it Pink.

Elin Jones made a statement on The 50th Anniversary of Radio Bronglais in Ceredigion.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 15.30 the temporary Chair suspended the meeting.

(60 mins)

5.

Debate on the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee report: the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales

NDM7401 Dai Lloyd (South Wales West)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee:  Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 8 July 2020.

Note: The response from the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 8 September 2020.

 

Minutes:

The item started at 15.40

NDM7401 Dai Lloyd (South Wales West)

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee:  Inquiry into the impact of the Covid-19 outbreak, and its management, on health and social care in Wales, which was laid in the Table Office on 8 July 2020.

Note: The response from the Welsh Government to the report was laid in the Table Office on 8 September 2020.

The motion was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

 

(60 mins)

6.

Member Debate under Standing order 11.21 (iv) Universal Basic Income (UBI)

NDM7384 Jack Sargeant (Alyn and Deeside)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the damage poverty does to life chances and that work is no longer a guaranteed route out of poverty;

b) that the pandemic has forced more people into poverty with increasing numbers of residents having to turn to charitable support like food banks;

c) that, even before the pandemic, UK growth was poor and we face the growing challenge of automation, placing increasing numbers of jobs at risk;

d) that a universal basic income (UBI) gives people more control over their lives, would alleviate poverty and have an accompanying positive affect on mental health;

e) that a UBI would create jobs and encourage people to access training opportunities; 

f) that a UBI allows people the space to become more involved in their community and support their neighbours.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government:

a) to establish a UBI trial in Wales;

b) to lobby the UK Government for funding to establish a Wales-wide UBI.

Supported by

Adam Price

Alun Davies

Bethan Sayed

Dai Lloyd

Dawn Bowden

Helen Mary Jones

Huw Irranca-Davies

Jenny Rathbone

John Griffiths

Leanne Wood

Mick Antoniw

Mike Hedges

Rhianon Passmore

Sian Gwenllian

 

Minutes:

The item started at 16.27

Voting on the motion under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

NDM7384 Jack Sargeant (Alyn and Deeside)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes:

a) the damage poverty does to life chances and that work is no longer a guaranteed route out of poverty;

b) that the pandemic has forced more people into poverty with increasing numbers of residents having to turn to charitable support like food banks;

c) that, even before the pandemic, UK growth was poor and we face the growing challenge of automation, placing increasing numbers of jobs at risk;

d) that a universal basic income (UBI) gives people more control over their lives, would alleviate poverty and have an accompanying positive affect on mental health;

e) that a UBI would create jobs and encourage people to access training opportunities; 

f) that a UBI allows people the space to become more involved in their community and support their neighbours.

2. Calls on the Welsh Government:

a) to establish a UBI trial in Wales;

b) to lobby the UK Government for funding to establish a Wales-wide UBI.

Supported by

Adam Price

Alun Davies

Bethan Sayed

Dai Lloyd

Dawn Bowden

Helen Mary Jones

Huw Irranca-Davies

Jenny Rathbone

John Griffiths

Leanne Wood

Mick Antoniw

Mike Hedges

Rhianon Passmore

Sian Gwenllian

 

The result was as follows:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

28

10

13

51

The motion was agreed.

In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, at 17.22 the temporary Chair suspended the meeting.

 

(60 mins)

7.

Welsh Conservatives Debate - Value for Money for Taxpayers

NDM7404 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny.

2. Regrets that in excess of £1 billion has been wasted by successive Welsh Governments on defunct policies, abandoned projects and overspending against budgets since 2010.

3. Further regrets that potentially good Welsh policies have been allowed to wither due to a lack of buy-in and short-term decision-making.

4. Calls upon the Welsh Government to establish a cross-departmental office at the heart of government to drive a culture change, challenge decision making and ensure the delivery of value for money for taxpayers.

 

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny and recognises the poor value for money represented by austerity economics.

2. Regrets that the UK Government has underfunded and / or blocked numerous non-devolved projects, services and infrastructure in Wales including research and development, rail, broadband and tidal energy since 2010.

3. Welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies designed for the people of Wales including: free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, 21st Century Schools and the Economic Resilience Fund.

4. Calls upon the UK government to provide greater fiscal flexibilities for the Welsh Government in the interests of good budget management.

[If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and will be de-selected]

Amendment 2 Caroline Jones (South Wales West)

Insert new point after point 3 and renumber accordingly:

Believes that the Welsh Government's failure to deliver its policies has helped contribute to the lack of trust in politics which has resulted in over half of the Welsh electorate not participating in Senedd elections

Amendment 3 Gareth Bennett (South Wales Central)

Delete point 4 and replace with:

Calls for a binding referendum on whether to keep or abolish the devolved government and parliament of Wales, in light of the Welsh Government’s failures.

Amendment 4 Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure value for money by:

a) recognising the waste of public resource in the private third sector, through duplication and top-heavy management;

b) democratising service provision through redirecting funding to local government in Wales.

Minutes:

The item started at 17.34

Voting on the motion and amendments under this item was deferred until Voting Time.

A vote was taken on the motion without amendment:

NDM7404 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny.

2. Regrets that in excess of £1 billion has been wasted by successive Welsh Governments on defunct policies, abandoned projects and overspending against budgets since 2010.

3. Further regrets that potentially good Welsh policies have been allowed to wither due to a lack of buy-in and short-term decision-making.

4. Calls upon the Welsh Government to establish a cross-departmental office at the heart of government to drive a culture change, challenge decision making and ensure the delivery of value for money for taxpayers.

 

For

Abstain

Against

Total

10

4

37

51

The motion without amendment was not agreed.

The following amendments were tabled:

Amendment 1 Rebecca Evans (Gower)

Delete all and replace with

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny and recognises the poor value for money represented by austerity economics.

2. Regrets that the UK Government has underfunded and / or blocked numerous non-devolved projects, services and infrastructure in Wales including research and development, rail, broadband and tidal energy since 2010.

3. Welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies designed for the people of Wales including: free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, 21st Century Schools and the Economic Resilience Fund.

4. Calls upon the UK government to provide greater fiscal flexibilities for the Welsh Government in the interests of good budget management.

A vote was taken on amendment 1:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

24

51

Amendment 1 was agreed.

As amendment 1 was agreed, amendments 2, 3 and were de-selected

Amendment 4 Neil McEvoy (South Wales Central)

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure value for money by:

a) recognising the waste of public resource in the private third sector, through duplication and top-heavy management;

b) democratising service provision through redirecting funding to local government in Wales

A vote was taken on amendment 4:

For

Abstain

Against

Total

6

0

45

51

Amendment 4 was not agreed.

 

A vote was taken on the motion as amended:

NDM7404 Darren Millar (Clwyd West)

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that the successful management of taxpayers’ money depends on clear objectives, good governance and effective scrutiny and recognises the poor value for money represented by austerity economics.

2. Regrets that the UK Government has underfunded and / or blocked numerous non-devolved projects, services and infrastructure in Wales including research and development, rail, broadband and tidal energy since 2010.

3. Welcomes the progress made in delivering innovative Welsh Government policies designed for the people of Wales including: free prescriptions, Jobs Growth Wales, presumed consent for organ donation, the single cancer pathway, the childcare offer, the doubling of the capital limit, 21st Century Schools and the Economic Resilience Fund.

4. Calls upon the UK government to provide greater fiscal flexibilities for the Welsh Government in the interests of good budget management.

For

Abstain

Against

Total

27

0

24

51

The motion as amended was agreed.

 

8.

Voting Time

Minutes:

In accordance with Standing Order 34.14D, at 18.32 proceedings were suspended to allow a technical break before voting time.

The item started at 18.39

 

Votes Summary

Supporting documents:

(30 mins)

9.

Short Debate

NDM7403 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

The challenges and opportunities for the Môn economy: an opportunity to take a broad look at the Môn economy, including serious concerns around Brexit, challenges and opportunities in relation to energy, and how to ensure community and environmental sustainability when creating new economic opportunities.                  

 

Minutes:

The item started at 18.43

NDM7403 Rhun ap Iorwerth (Ynys Môn)

The challenges and opportunities for the Môn economy: an opportunity to take a broad look at the Môn economy, including serious concerns around Brexit, challenges and opportunities in relation to energy, and how to ensure community and environmental sustainability when creating new economic opportunities. 

 

 

 

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